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me an unexpected evidence of healthful thought。
Naturally； I soon asked to be presented to the lady of the house；
and the count escorted us through a series of rooms to a salon
furnished much like any handsome apartment in Paris or St。
Petersburg； where the countess； with other ladies； all in full
evening dress； received us cordially。 This sudden transition from
the peasant cabin of the master to these sumptuous rooms of the
mistress was startling； it seemed like scene…shifting at a
theater。
After some friendly talk； all returned to the rooms of the master
of the house； where tea was served at a long table from the
bubbling brazen urnthe samovar； and though there were some
twenty or thirty guests； nothing could be more informal。 All was
simple； kindly； and unrestrained。
My first question was upon the condition of the people。 Our
American legation had corresponded with Count Tolstoi and his
family as to distributing a portion of the famine fund sent from
the United States； hence this subject naturally arose at the
outset。 He said that the condition of the peasants was still very
bad； that they had very generally eaten their draught…animals；
burned portions of their buildings to keep life in their bodies；
and reduced themselves to hopeless want。 On my suggesting that
the new commercial treaty with Germany might help matters； he
thought that it would have but little effect； since only a small
portion of the total product of Russian agriculture is consumed
abroad。 This led him to speak of some Americans and Englishmen
who had visited the famine…stricken districts； and； while he
referred kindly to them all； he seemed especially attracted by
the Quaker John Bellows of Gloucester； England； the author of the
wonderful little French dictionary。 This led him to say that he
sympathized with the Quakers in everything save their belief in
property； that in this they were utterly illogical； that property
presupposes force to protect it。 I remarked that most American
Quakers knew nothing of such force； that none of them had ever
seen an American soldier； save during our Civil War； and that
probably not one in hundreds of them had ever seen a soldier at
all。 He answered； 〃But you forget the policeman。〃 He evidently
put policemen and soldiers in the same categoryas using force
to protect property； and therefore to be alike abhorred。
I found that to his disbelief in any right of ownership literary
property formed no exception。 He told me that； in his view； he
had no right to receive money for the permission to print a book。
To this I naturally answered that by carrying out this doctrine
he would simply lavish large sums upon publishers in every
country of Europe and America； many of them rich and some of them
piratical； and that in my opinion he would do a much better thing
by taking the full value of his copyrights and bestowing the
proceeds upon the peasantry starving about him。 To which he
answered that it was a question of duty。 To this I agreed； but
remarked that beneath this lay the question what this duty really
was。 It was a pleasure to learn from another source that the
countess took a different view of it； and that she had in some
way secured the proceeds of his copyrights for their very large
and interesting family。 Light was thus thrown on Tolstoi's
remark； made afterward； that women are not so self…sacrificing as
men； that a man would sometimes sacrifice his family for an idea；
but that a woman would not。
He then went on to express an interest in the Shakers； and
especially in Frederick Evans。 He had evidently formed an idea of
them very unlike the reality； in fact； the Shaker his imagination
had developed was as different from a Lebanon Shaker as an eagle
from a duck； and his notion of their influence on American
society was comical。
He spoke at some length regarding religion in Russia； evidently
believing that its present dominant form is soon to pass away。 I
asked him how then he could account for the fact that while in
other countries women are greatly in the majority at church
services； in every Russian church the majority are men； and that
during the thirty…five years since my last visit to Moscow this
tendency had apparently increased。 He answered； 〃All this is on
the surface； there is much deeper thought below； and the great
want of Russia is liberty to utter it。〃 He then gave some
examples to show this； among them the case of a gentleman and
lady in St。 Petersburg； whose children had been taken from them
and given to Princess ； their grandmother； because the latter
is of the Orthodox Church and the former are not。 I answered that
I had seen the children； that their grandmother had told me that
their mother was a screaming atheist with nihilistic tendencies；
who had left her husband and was bringing up the children in a
scandalous way；teaching them to abjure God and curse the Czar；
that their father had thought it his duty to give all his
property away and work as a laborer； that therefore shethe
grandmotherhad secured an order from the Emperor empowering her
to take charge of the children； that I had seen the children at
their grandmother's house； and that they had seemed very happy。
Tolstoi insisted that this statement by the grandmother was
simply made to cover the fact that the children were taken from
the mother because her belief was not of the orthodox pattern。 My
opinion is that Tolstoi was mistaken； at least as to the father；
and that the father had been led to give away his property and
work with his hands in obedience to the ideas so eloquently
advocated by Tolstoi himself。 Unlike his master； this gentleman
appears not to have had the advantage of a wife who mitigated his
ideas。
Tolstoi also referred to the difficulties which translators had
found in securing publishers for his most recent book〃The
Kingdom of God。〃 On my assuring him that American publishers of
high standing would certainly be glad to take it； he said that he
had supposed the ideas in it so contrary to opinions dominant in
America as to prevent its publication there。
Returning to the subject of religion in Russia； he referred to
some curious incongruities； as； for example； the portrait of
Socrates forming part of a religious picture in the Annunciation
Church at the Kremlin。 He said that evidently some monk； who had
dipped into Plato； had thus placed Socrates among the precursors
of Christ。 I cited the reason assigned by Melanchthon for
Christ's descent into hellnamely； the desire of the Redeemer to
make himself known to Socrates； Plato； and the best of the
ancient philosophers； and I compared this with Luther's idea； so
characteristic of him； that Christ descended into hell in order
to have a hand…to…hand grapple and wrestle with Satan。 This led
Tolstoi to give me a Russian legend of the descent into hell；
which was that； when Christ arrived there； he found Satan forging
chains； but that； at the approach of the Saviour； the walls of
hell collapsed； and Satan found himself entangled in his own
chains； and remained so for a thousand years。
In regard to the Jews； he said that he sympathized with them； but
that the statements regarding the persecution of them were
somewhat exaggerated。 Kennan's statements regarding the treatment
of prisoners in Siberia he thought overdrawn at times； but
substantially true。 He expressed his surprise that certain
leading men in the empire； whom he named； could believe that
persecution and the forcible repression of thought would have any
permanent effect at the end of the nineteenth century。
He then dwelt upon sundry evil conditions in Russia； on which my
comment was that every country； of course； had its own grievous
shortcomings； and I cited； as to America； the proverb： 〃No one
knows so well where the shoe pinches as he who wears it。〃 At this
he asked me about lynch law in the United States； and expressed
his horror of it。 I showed him that it was the inevitable result
of a wretched laxity and sham humanity in the administration of
our criminal law； which had led great bodies of people； more
especially in the Southern and extreme Western parts of the
country； to revert to natural justice and take the law into their
own hands； and I cited Goldwin Smith's profound remark that 〃some
American lynchings are proofs not so