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alcibiades i-第4章

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keep to yourself; whereby you will know that I have always had my eye on

you。  Suppose that at this moment some God came to you and said: 

Alcibiades; will you live as you are; or die in an instant if you are

forbidden to make any further acquisition?I verily believe that you would

choose death。  And I will tell you the hope in which you are at present

living:  Before many days have elapsed; you think that you will come before

the Athenian assembly; and will prove to them that you are more worthy of

honour than Pericles; or any other man that ever lived; and having proved

this; you will have the greatest power in the state。  When you have gained

the greatest power among us; you will go on to other Hellenic states; and

not only to Hellenes; but to all the barbarians who inhabit the same

continent with us。  And if the God were then to say to you again:  Here in

Europe is to be your seat of empire; and you must not cross over into Asia

or meddle with Asiatic affairs; I do not believe that you would choose to

live upon these terms; but the world; as I may say; must be filled with

your power and nameno man less than Cyrus and Xerxes is of any account

with you。  Such I know to be your hopesI am not guessing onlyand very

likely you; who know that I am speaking the truth; will reply; Well;

Socrates; but what have my hopes to do with the explanation which you

promised of your unwillingness to leave me?  And that is what I am now

going to tell you; sweet son of Cleinias and Dinomache。  The explanation

is; that all these designs of yours cannot be accomplished by you without

my help; so great is the power which I believe myself to have over you and

your concerns; and this I conceive to be the reason why the God has

hitherto forbidden me to converse with you; and I have been long expecting

his permission。  For; as you hope to prove your own great value to the

state; and having proved it; to attain at once to absolute power; so do I

indulge a hope that I shall be the supreme power over you; if I am able to

prove my own great value to you; and to show you that neither guardian; nor

kinsman; nor any one is able to deliver into your hands the power which you

desire; but I only; God being my helper。  When you were young (compare

Symp。) and your hopes were not yet matured; I should have wasted my time;

and therefore; as I conceive; the God forbade me to converse with you; but

now; having his permission; I will speak; for now you will listen to me。



ALCIBIADES:  Your silence; Socrates; was always a surprise to me。  I never

could understand why you followed me about; and now that you have begun to

speak again; I am still more amazed。  Whether I think all this or not; is a

matter about which you seem to have already made up your mind; and

therefore my denial will have no effect upon you。  But granting; if I must;

that you have perfectly divined my purposes; why is your assistance

necessary to the attainment of them?  Can you tell me why?



SOCRATES:  You want to know whether I can make a long speech; such as you

are in the habit of hearing; but that is not my way。  I think; however;

that I can prove to you the truth of what I am saying; if you will grant me

one little favour。



ALCIBIADES:  Yes; if the favour which you mean be not a troublesome one。



SOCRATES:  Will you be troubled at having questions to answer?



ALCIBIADES:  Not at all。



SOCRATES:  Then please to answer。



ALCIBIADES:  Ask me。



SOCRATES:  Have you not the intention which I attribute to you?



ALCIBIADES:  I will grant anything you like; in the hope of hearing what

more you have to say。



SOCRATES:  You do; then; mean; as I was saying; to come forward in a little

while in the character of an adviser of the Athenians?  And suppose that

when you are ascending the bema; I pull you by the sleeve and say;

Alcibiades; you are getting up to advise the Atheniansdo you know the

matter about which they are going to deliberate; better than they?How

would you answer?



ALCIBIADES:  I should reply; that I was going to advise them about a matter

which I do know better than they。



SOCRATES:  Then you are a good adviser about the things which you know?



ALCIBIADES:  Certainly。



SOCRATES:  And do you know anything but what you have learned of others; or

found out yourself?



ALCIBIADES:  That is all。



SOCRATES:  And would you have ever learned or discovered anything; if you

had not been willing either to learn of others or to examine yourself?



ALCIBIADES:  I should not。



SOCRATES:  And would you have been willing to learn or to examine what you

supposed that you knew?



ALCIBIADES:  Certainly not。



SOCRATES:  Then there was a time when you thought that you did not know

what you are now supposed to know?



ALCIBIADES:  Certainly。



SOCRATES:  I think that I know tolerably well the extent of your

acquirements; and you must tell me if I forget any of them:  according to

my recollection; you learned the arts of writing; of playing on the lyre;

and of wrestling; the flute you never would learn; this is the sum of your

accomplishments; unless there were some which you acquired in secret; and I

think that secrecy was hardly possible; as you could not have come out of

your door; either by day or night; without my seeing you。



ALCIBIADES:  Yes; that was the whole of my schooling。



SOCRATES:  And are you going to get up in the Athenian assembly; and give

them advice about writing?



ALCIBIADES:  No; indeed。



SOCRATES:  Or about the touch of the lyre?



ALCIBIADES:  Certainly not。



SOCRATES:  And they are not in the habit of deliberating about wrestling;

in the assembly?



ALCIBIADES:  Hardly。



SOCRATES:  Then what are the deliberations in which you propose to advise

them?  Surely not about building?



ALCIBIADES:  No。



SOCRATES:  For the builder will advise better than you will about that?



ALCIBIADES:  He will。



SOCRATES:  Nor about divination?



ALCIBIADES:  No。



SOCRATES:  About that again the diviner will advise better than you will?



ALCIBIADES:  True。



SOCRATES:  Whether he be little or great; good or ill…looking; noble or

ignoblemakes no difference。



ALCIBIADES:  Certainly not。



SOCRATES:  A man is a good adviser about anything; not because he has

riches; but because he has knowledge?



ALCIBIADES:  Assuredly。



SOCRATES:  Whether their counsellor is rich or poor; is not a matter which

will make any difference to the Athenians when they are deliberating about

the health of the citizens; they only require that he should be a

physician。



ALCIBIADES:  Of course。



SOCRATES:  Then what will be the subject of deliberation about which you

will be justified in getting up and advising them?



ALCIBIADES:  About their own concerns; Socrates。



SOCRATES:  You mean about shipbuilding; for example; when the question is

what sort of ships they ought to build?



ALCIBIADES:  No; I should not advise them about that。



SOCRATES:  I suppose; because you do not understand shipbuilding:is that

the reason?



ALCIBIADES:  It is。



SOCRATES:  Then about what concerns of theirs will you advise them?



ALCIBIADES:  About war; Socrates; or about peace; or about any other

concerns of the state。



SOCRATES:  You mean; when they deliberate with whom they ought to make

peace; and with whom they ought to go to war; and in what manner?



ALCIBIADES:  Yes。



SOCRATES:  And they ought to go to war with those against whom it is better

to go to war?



ALCIBIADES:  Yes。



SOCRATES:  And when it is better?



ALCIBIADES:  Certainly。



SOCRATES:  And for as long a time as is better?



ALCIBIADES:  Yes。



SOCRATES:  But suppose the Athenians to deliberate with whom they ought to

close in wrestling; and whom they should grasp by the hand; would you; or

the master of gymnastics; be a better adviser of them?



ALCIBIADES:  Clearly; the master of gymnastics。



SOCRATES:  And can you tell me on what grounds the master of gymnastics

would decide; with whom they ought or ought not to close; and when and how?

To take an instance:  Would he not say that they should wrestle with those

against whom it is best to wrestle?



ALCIBIADES:  Yes。



SOCRATES:  And as much as is best?



ALCIBIADES:  Certainly。



SOCRATES:  And at such times as are best?



ALCIBIADES:  Yes。



SOCRATES:  Again; you sometimes accompany the lyre with the song and dance?



ALCIBIADES:  Yes。



SOCRATES:  When it is well to do so?



ALCIBIADES:  Yes。



SOCRATES:  And as much as is well?



ALCIBIADES:  Just so。



SOCRATES:  And as you speak of an excellence or art of the best in

wrestling; and of an excellence in playing the lyre; I wish you would tell

me what this latter is;the excellence of wrestling I call gymnastic; and

I want to know what you call the other。
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